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les online's avatar

Mysticism draws the masses to itself in troubled times.

(and: There's reassurance in identifying with a powerful idea.)...

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Jesse Boyer's avatar

I didn't know you converted to Catholicism, Johan. Interesting.

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laughlyn (johan eddebo)'s avatar

I did. But it was before it was cool!

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John Steppling's avatar

seymour's book is pretty decent...inspite of what he has become (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/23/lockdown-sceptics-history-academics-left-covid )

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laughlyn (johan eddebo)'s avatar

Yeah, his old stuff is pretty good, but man, did that guy disappoint.

It's like how John Zerzan accused you and me of "spreading vaccine disinformation". I mean, what the fuck? This guy used to defend Kaczynski, and spent his life preaching anti-authoritarianism and the perils of technology -- but when we tried to get out in front of the covid scandal and the experimental treatments, we were "spreading misinformation"?

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Jesse Boyer's avatar

I haven't heard of the author or book but from its synopsis I think I've already drawn those conclusions.

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Sabine Amann's avatar

Christ is risen!

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Rob (c137)'s avatar

It's a shame that they're steering Christians into imperialism.

If only they knew what Jesus meant.

He said that some would get the milk of his words and others the meat. I understand that a lot more today.

The money changers run our world and yet these Christians bow down to the money changer run mega churches etc.

There's an interesting theory on Jesus that he was based on Julius Caesar who was also trying to reform things and later sacrificed and demonized by the system.

In this documentary, a priest and a linguist who weren't in contact with each other originally both found a lot of interesting clues all over.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=gvga-98x6Nk

It doesn't negate what Jesus said but it reminds us that sometimes they turn human beings into supernatural entities in order to separate us from the facts on the ground.

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laughlyn (johan eddebo)'s avatar

Yeah, that's arguably inevitable when Christianity becomes institutionalized within the framework of a state -- but the "hard-coded" separation between the church and the world (well-expressed in Augustine's City of God) tends to provide certain limits for this sort of corruption.

Caesar did have an imperial cult of his own. I've never in my 20 years of work in and around apologetics encountered the suggestion that the narratives and testimony of the early church would have been based in the figure of Julius Caesar.

But the Christ-fiction hypotheses have been tried many times before, and one key problem is that they fail to explain both the historical documentation and the emergence of the early church. The first generation was martyred almost to a man, persecuted by Jewish and Roman institutions alike, and they wouldn't have died for what they knew were a lie.

And the early testimony points out Christ, this person, who lived and died in a public manner in a specific historical setting, and was executed at this particular date under the authority of these named officials, as witnessed by these named people, and placed in a particular grave owned by Joseph of Arimathea, and then rose from the dead on the third day.

Everyone and his dog could have "fact-checked" these things. If Christ was entirely fictional, all of this would have been shot down immediately, especially in an honor-based society such as that of the ANE (where everyone knew everyone else's business), and the early church would never have gotten off the ground.

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