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Andreas Stullkowski's avatar

But how do you debate for example the climate issue with a believer in the climate crisis?

The argument is that the experts make models, which clearly show we will al die in a fiery apocalypse, 50 years from now. Hence we must act right now.

What can you say to that?

- You cannot point to experience: the issue is in the future. Sure, every warm day proves the climate crisis, but no weather disproves it.

- You cannot point to other experts who have other opinions, because clearly they are in the minority, or too old, or may have noble prices in physics, but what do they know.

- You cannot even make good scientific arguments yourself, because the climate believers usually have so surprisingly little knowledge, and they do not even understand it when the refute themselves.

I find there is no debating possible.

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Dennis Riches's avatar

I think you will find this passage from the introduction of Turtles All the Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth (Childrens Health Defense, 2022) relevant to your discussion:

"Due to the inherent complexity of its underlying subject, the vaccine debate challenges medical professionals and scientists alike… In order to attain even a moderate level of expertise on this topic, one needs to have at least a basic understanding of numerous and varied medical and scientific disciplines… infectious diseases, pediatrics, family medicine, vaccinology, bacteriology, immunology, epidemiology, toxicology. To diagnose adverse side effects, assess their severity, and find suitable treatments, one needs considerable knowledge of clinical medicine, with the specific fields depending on which organs are affected and the level of harm sustained (neurology, gastroenterology, dermatology, allergology, rheumatology, autoimmune diseases, etc.)

The above is by no means an exhaustive list. Vitally important aspects of the vaccine debate lie outside the domain of medical science… One must learn how vaccine research is conducted and vaccine policy is formed in the real world—where power, money, and politics shape the rules.

Legal and constitutional matters, especially with regard to severe vaccine side effects, occasionally crop up in courts across the globe. And ethical questions arise from legislative initiatives to compel immunization by law… Thus, some knowledge in all the aforementioned academic and non-academic disciplines is required if one is to gain a comprehensive understanding of all the issues surrounding vaccines. Vaccination, then, has to be one of the most complex issues—if not the most complex—to be publicly debated over the last few decades. It’s safe to assume there isn’t a single person on Earth with expertise in all of these fields, even among those celebrated as “experts” on vaccination and those responsible for shaping vaccine policy. "

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